I had a bit of a worrying light-bulb moment while sitting at the druids apartment last night.
The Hyundai ad, featuring Quinton Chang, was playing and I realized..the image portrayed to woman in most advertising is quite disturbing.
Now let me quickly clarify. I am all for female empowerment.
That being said I have an issue with gender discrimination and stereotyping of any kind, and when 'empowerment' becomes a substitute word for 'discriminatory stereotyping' well lets just say I get a bit miffed.
Lets quickly analyze the ad:
Police are chasing a criminal, who gets on a bike and is fleeing.
The only vehicle available is a little Hyundai Getz, driven by a young, pretty professional woman. They attempt to requisition the vehicle, but she winds the window up, trapping the officers hand and proceeds to drive slowly down the street, 'in pursuit' of the criminal..with him having to walk along side due to said trapped hand.
The concept is 'you will never let anyone else drive your Getz'
The reason this worries/annoys me is that the image portrayed to us of a young successful female is as follows:
1. She has no respect for authority. A police officer is a police officer dammit. If s/he tells you to get out of your vehicle you get out of your vehicle.
2. She is quick to tell you just what she thinks and even quicker to act. No thinking is involved here, she simply says 'No way', winds the window up and drives.
3. She does not acknowledge the consequences of her actions.
4. She is pretty.
Why is it that this impression of a woman is so coveted? Why do females want to be this pretentious, stuck up, annoying person? Does it make them feel better about themselves?
I think the problem is that no matter how much feminism calls for 'equality', the actual desire is for 'superiority'. We all want to feel that we are better than the next person, so I can relate to this, and anyway guys have been using gender as a factor for years.
And the image portrayed in this ad is a direct result of this desire.
Whats scary to me is that, no matter how subtle it is, this is the image we feed to young girls all the time. The benchmarks of success are not how you fare in the your chosen profession. It is rather measured on how stuck up, self centered, well dressed, and (let's face it) pretty you are.
No wonder people like Lindsey Lohan and Paris Hilton are so popular in Teen magazines.
Newsflash lady's: Guys don't find that attractive. Pretty girls are a dime a dozen. Pretentious stuck up ones are even more readily available. Take careful note of the terminology and word selection in the previous two sentences and you will quickly see what young professional guys think of females matching the description portrayed to you as the one you should conform to.
Sure good looks help, but at the end of the day we would prefer the lady with a stunning personality and a genuine heart, than the killer body with more attitude than a miniature doberman.
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on the flipside I fully agree with what you say, since I am single and mingling...but without sounding too prejudiced I have no issues interacting with the odd (or more) hottie every now and then....discrimination is a terrible thing you know!!!
*gingerly removes splinter...damned spoon*
And you know I have no problem with your discrimination, but as you have found...hotties with depth are a rare thing (hence my engaged status), and must be treated with due respect :)
The whole point of the ad is that the girl WILL NOT give up the Hyundai that she loves because its SUCH a great car. The target market for Hyundai is an upper LSM that is why she looks professional, and the nature of the Getz being what it is, is naturally skewed more towards younger females.
Now reading into it so far as to say that the woman in question has no respect for authority, and doesnt realise the consequences of her actions is taking it just a bit too far.
I think this ad is great - because it shows this young woman to be quite uncompromising in giving up something that she's worked for.
Re Lindsay and Paris I admire the honesty, and its great to know that there are men out there who dont need women to be plastic fantastic to be adored.
Peace :)
I am well aware that the target market is in fact young professional women. I am also aware that the car is pitched at them, and designed for them. (Not gonna go into my thoughts on the car design at this point). I also understand the slant, and the 'I will not give my car up' attitude.
The reason I don't like the ad is that it portrays a stereotype. One which will be picked up, and like it or not will be followed.
My first thought seeing that ad was, 'girl you got a hope in...' The entire character she portrays is unappealing in my opinion.
"I think this ad is great - because it shows this young woman to be quite uncompromising in giving up something that she's worked for."
Have a look at the way you worded that. The words "young woman" portrays an affection towards the group, probably due to you being one of them. The words "Worked for" portrays the view that it is in-fact harder for woman to achieve in our society, and that her having achieved it is to be commended. The word "uncompromising" as opposed to say "stubborn" implies that her attitude is in fact an okay one to have. <-- It is that last point that I have a problem with.
See even you are affected, albeit subtly, by the media. Analysis is fun, no? :)
Oh and taz, you know i think you rock :)
But anyways, whether you (men in general) like the character or not, she has sold a whole lotta cars, and the only advertising that works, is the kind that sells.
We're all affected by the media, how could we not, its all around us, and we've even taken to discussing in during our lunch breaks so its already in our heads and here to stay :)
I say embrace it baby
PS> SS you owe me a braai chop
This post reminded me of something I posted on my wordpress blog a long time ago, about what I thought of those Visa commercials where everyone is in sync until someone pays in cash or check. I think I'll repost that. Thanks for the idea! See, your blog gets society to think!
:)
Actually I meant that you didn't mean stubborn, you used the positive "uncompromising". Which proved that you viewed her reaction as an acceptable one.
It's the police. Its worse than marriage. They say stop, you stop. Simple. No room for arguments there. As much as I distrust our esteemed police service they are meant to be listened to.
Also police have the right to use your car in the pursuit of a criminal. I believe it is law. I believe we are not above it. Even if we are young professional ladies who have worked ever so hard and are not willing to part (in an uncompromising fashion) with our Hyundai's.
All of the above was not the point. The point was the stereotype. Which I still think is an unhealthy one.
Taz, when we having a braai? Ask Joe to organise?
And guess what- it IS harder to make is as a woman. I live in one of the most equal societies in the world (not equal, but better than most), and I have been discriminated against on the grounds of sex countless times. I don't want to be treated better than the next person. I just want to be taken on my merits and given the same chance as anybody else. And I am a feminist.
I can't really speak to the ad, because I haven't seen it, but it has to be a drop in the ocean of the stereotyping of women - and men. Persumably its glib and meant to get the laugh, with the message that normally she would comply, but the car is so precious, she's not going to let it go. The joke being, persumably, that the car is elevated to the status of something you would never give up, like your child, or your life etc.
And I personally don't think questioning authority is the worst thing in the world. I refer you to the Stanley Milgram experiments for your consideration on the idea of always complying with authority.
And by the way what a pile of shite to use the 'men don't think its attractive' argument against a woman's behaviour. I'm not arguing that people should be superfluous and silly, but Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan sell as many men's mags as they do mags for teens. Even if that wasn't the case, if we lived in fear of doing something in case men found it unattractive, we wouldn't have a vote, or wear glasses, or ever speak our minds.
The fact that it is harder to make it as a woman does not make it acceptable to behave any way you find fit, purely because it is in your opinion "empowering".
The point I'm making has to do with the woman's attitude and the way it is portrayed as a positive thing.
Sorry that you had it hard being a woman in your industry, it is unfair and it shouldn't be the case. There should be equality, and I hope it will be achieved in time.
The word feminism has many 'definitions'. I don't want to start too much of a dialogue on it in that I am well aware that I do not know much about the movement. However the very fact that it is called 'feminism' implies a bias. Why not 'Equalitarianism'? or something similar?
That said, It is my experience that most 'feminists' are more 'anti-men' / 'pro-women' then they are 'pro-equality'. The words 'All men are bastards' comes to mind as a general theme behind most discussions I have had with self proclaimed feminists.
Whether or not it is shite is a topic for another debate, and it would be a cool one I think. But it cannot be denied that whether or not we find you attractive is a big motivating factor to women. Paris and Lindsey may grace (loosely used term) the pages of many mens magazines, but open any womens magazine and you will be bombarded with waif like models, cosmetic adverts, and the inevitable '20 positions that will blow his mind' article. You gals care what we think, even if you won't admit it.
But that wasn't why I said that. I said it because its my frame of reference. I find the gal in the ad unattractive. Shes gorgeous, but definitely not someone I would ever take seriously. Purely due to her 'I am greater than thou' attitude.
AHD, we loves you :) No stress m'lady.
Sexy Time! :P
As for definitions of feminism - from my point of view its called that because it specifically makes reference to the fact that women have been institutionally discriminated against for as long as we can reasonably know, and so we must look beyond things like "equality of opportunity" to think about the institutional and social frameworks which cause inequality which are harder to see (like those wonderful women's mag you mention - or emaciated women "eating" ice-cream in those magnum ads). I am both a feminist and an egalitarian.
And it isn't just my chosen field which makes it harder to make it as a woman. It is everywhere. Most of the discrimination I have experience has been in the field of business. And I'm not saying that anybody gets to behave in any way without reference to other people. I simply argued against your positioning of feminism as an anti-male doctrine. And if some women are man-haters, well that's what they are - man-haters, not feminists. Also there are plenty of male feminists too, well maybe not plenty, but certainly I know a good few, including my father.
And I'm also not saying that women aren't motivated by wanting to be considered attractive (and men too by the way). I'm simply saying its a shit argument to make. Surely we should base our behaviour on principles and the best course of action, and not on what people will think of us.
It seems to me that your argument is that women should be more thoughtful about how they behave and NOT behave in a particular way because they are led to believe its attractive. Then giving a different version of what is attractive as a model of behaviour is surely circular reasoning?! Some men love the 'stuck up bitch' attitude, but that doesn't make it right either.
Yes. Finally! :)
The circular reasoning was unfortunate, I apologize, shoulda read what I wrote before posting. Again I was just commenting from my perspective...but still.
Also, by your definition I'm a feminist. And an egalitarian. I had to look that up btw :)
Sorry my friend. Say what you will, but you belong to a shallow species.
As we both know, I have firsthand experience of how tuned in South African men are to exactly the killer body and looks. (And you're guilty too. After all, my stellar personality alone didn't do it for you! *Grins*)
A killer body and pretty face seem to blind men to everything else. And yes, the reverse is true as well. Lack of a killer body and a pretty face simply makes one invisible to men. Period. They've no interest in even finding out what the shell contains.
And if that isn't the case, then pray tell me: why have I been virtually invisible since returning from the States? It is only now that I'm dropping the weight I have so diligently acquired in the States, that men are even glancing in my direction again. If it wasn't so sad, it really would've made me laugh, bitterly... And no, just for the record, I'm not losing weight in order to gain male attention/affection. I figure (couldn't resist) that I could smuggle myself back to a first world country much easier if there is less of me... ha ha.
So whatever people say about the Yanks? Even at my er... most voluptuous... American men still paid me attention.
Maybe it was the accent they were after, but even before they heard me speak - and therefore before they even knew that I was foreign - they chatted me up. Remarkably.
Loving an attractive woman requires no imagination. Pity the Yanks have so much more imagination than the South Africans then!
Perhaps I would've believed your statement more if you yourself didn't fall for a girl with the whole outer (and yes, inner) package. If she didn't look the way she does, I'm sure you wouldn't have bothered to find out about her amazing heart and personality. It would've been your loss for sure.
Also, you're missing the point of the post.
BUT, that being said, it cannot be denied (as much as you would like it to be different) that attraction is firstly physical. It isn't just us guys that do that either. It is just the way it is.
I do not want to have to be imaginative to love the person I'm with, I want to be able to enjoy her conversation, the differences in opinion, the intellectual discussions. And at the end of the day want to also want to rip her clothes off. I dont think physical attraction is a bad thing, and I dont understand why people have a problem with it.
Also, why is it such an issue? To you I mean. As much as you seem to think that SA men are shallow and therefore you *think* they overlook you, I think you are judging with the wrong criteria. Non physical relationships take time. They don't happen with a random hook up, and it does tend to end up being an old friend who got to love you over time. There mighta been attraction, but almost never explosive.
BUT, again, that wasn't the point of the post.
And yes, I know this wasn't the point of your post. I merely took that paragraph you wrote and told you why I thought (and still think) it is untrue that (and I quote again): "good looks help, but at the end of the day we would prefer the lady with a stunning personality and a genuine heart..." And I think it is untrue because of my firsthand experience of being ignored by South African men due to my size and lack of looks. And I think you'd agree that I do have a teensy bit of personality. So yeah, nice theory, but not true.
And now you've just admitted that physical attraction is important after all. (And yes, I know both sexes are guilty of putting too much on outer appearances.) So then that DOES mean that you don't prefer the girl with the stunning personality and genuine heart after all, doesn't it? (Or perhaps you do, but only once you've bothered to find out whether she has either. Which happens to be only after she's caught your eye for some reason. Which leaves the non-eye-catching among us out in the cold, I'm afraid...)
Which is what I tried to point out in my first and extremely long-winded post.
As for you not wanting to use your imagination to be with someone... you misunderstood me.
You want to know why it is such an issue to me? Because it's incredibly weird and sad to live without being seen/acknowledged just because one doesn't look a certain way.
But as I've said: THEIR loss. Their loss.
Seriously my personal experience is very similar to Red's. Except I don't really think even the yanks looked at me when I was in the US.
I think the problem is not necessarily that people like what is attractive to them, but that the version of what we're allowed to consider to be attractive is so narrow. And women tend to be subject to a much narrower set of criteria than men. The men that I have found attractive in reality, the ones I have wanted to take home and do things to, have all been physically very different, because I find certain behaviours really attractive. Oh and I'm the first to say that I am abnormal in this way, but there has to be things other than simply the way a person looks that are attractive. Physically I'm attracted to certain voices and ways of moving. So being the wide and varied species that we are it has to be the case that there is a wide spectrum of what can be attractive to different people (or as my mother puts it "every old shoe, fits an old sock").
The thing is I think the things we find attractive about other people are filtered through an external process where we are constrained by what we SHOULD think is attractive, and not what we DO think is attractive... which at least explains why every-so-often I get groped by people in dark nightclubs (not by choice!), but almost never actually get asked out!
SS I totally accept that you prefer the lady with the stunning heart, but most men don't!
I fall into that category that loves drop dead gorgeous women but that doesnt make a terrible guy, or shallow it's my preference, and they like me so it no biggie.
EITHER way everybody has a match, and like Red said (pardon me, its different strokes for different folks an SA does have a bit of n issue I agree. Experience has taught me that attraction plays a huge role in the whole process (regardless of a persons size), after that its a gamble , either they have personality or they dont if they do make a go of it, if they dont enjoy the shag and move on!!!
The issues of feminism have been thouroughly discussed by the others so I wont go into it. But women end up being feminists because of the situations they are put in. If you look at it from the asian context (because I'm asian, after all), discrimintation begins from the moment you're born...
"Äh, it's a girl. She can't carry the family name" the not so enthusiastic fathers will comment. There's more, but it would take a novel.
Admittedly I've not seen the ad, either... but what I've learnt from the ads here is that nothing is real anymore. Ads have the tendency of being rather extreme. You can have animated ribenaberries falling in love with lemons with bollywood music in the background. What I'm trying to say is that the ad just probably wants to take it a step further in saying that 'no one can take my car away from me'. If people actually try to pull the stunt in real life, then that's a different story.
Well, just my two cents. And I don't have a wooden spoon within reach.
Double eww tee eff does pwnt mean? And do you honestly believe you got your point across by saying that?
Did I really? Or did I get the reaction I wanted.
Hence the roffle (rofl) comment.
www.prettygirlssavetheworld.com .